Topic: What to do with this church image?

[themightyzog]

I'm hoping you can all show me what I should have done with either/both of these images - they are one stop apart and more or less aligned.  I rested the camera on the back of a chair.

[Greg Groess]

My questions back to you Chris are...
What are your goals for the image??  Is this for print? Web? Do you want to remove the color cast from the side arches? 

There are a few different things I "could" do with this but overall the image is pretty good. 
If you want my goals and decisions for the image I'm happy to oblige but many of my suggestions will be subjective and are open to my interpretation.  (Oh wait...I did this to you guys earlier...)
But you posted so I'll return serve.  More to come....

Greg

[gremurphoto]

I think I've seen "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" once too often.GregM

[themightyzog]

Interesting GregM, but it doesn't look a very friendly place to me - perhaps a tad too much sharpening?

This is what I had done to it - not such a big change.

[gremurphoto]

Chris,initially I tried to recover some detail in the stained glass,just made it murky.Messed with the perspective,no go.Well if you can't make something better ,make it different,so I went for menacing.
Is the altarpiece illuminated?I dialed back the lightness to suggest contrast and detail.GregM

[themightyzog]

I only took my pocket camera to take this shot - normally I could take 3 exposures at +/- 2ev to be able to mask the window back in.  The altar was lit, as were the sides.  The rest was actually very very gloomy and dark.  I have found a great piece of free software - Enfuse, which automatically combines exposures - much easier than CS's HDR facility - which I normally use.

Here is a rendition with the cast removed.

One of my current projects is taking parish churches and there is a lot of mixed lighting.  I tried curving these away, but it is too hard.  So I now use a cheating idea (cant remember if I thought of it, or read about it).  Basically duplicate the layer, set the blend to colour mode and then either clone or paint away the cast - really quick and easy in churches!

The image is strange in that the right half is out of focus - perhaps the lens was dirty.

[sjordan93436]

My feeble attempt...  Just added a little contrast to R channel and boosted color with CM.

[headlights]

This is an old post i did stumbling upon.

If i do understand Chris correctly the main problem is color casting due to mixed types of light sources.

I have found away that very easily removes those cast. As you can see i managed to remove the cast successfully. Though Chris did manage to keep the yellows in the back of the church which i do like. (this could also be achieved on this image to delete parts of the layer in that area.) The way i did it also there the cast got removed.



It looks or i did desaturate though that is not true.


I do this all in LAB (in this image i did also play a bit with masks and overlay's, though that is not relevant to the cast problem)

The method is as simple as effective:

Set a marker at the where the cast is visible. The A and B values should be zero there.

move the center of the A and or B channel curve to the crosshair until the value is zero.  Well the cast is now fixed though we did created a new one by moving the center. All we have to do is to restore the center. So we pick a point right above the center (in B channel moves) and move that to the center until also that value is zero and all casts are fixed.

I happen to use an open source tool (can't afford PS and CM) hope that does not matter.

More about this way can be found at:

Discussing with Lee Varis:

http://blog.varis.com/2011/10/17/simple-fix-for-mixed-lighting-problems/

how to's and examples:

http://www.flickr.com/groups/delaboratory-users/discuss/72157627878741061/
http://www.flickr.com/groups/delaboratory-users/discuss/72157627970443017/
http://www.flickr.com/groups/delaboratory-users/discuss/72157627925900509/

[Greg Groess]

There are many different ways to "de-saturate" the image to remove the color cast.  The problem with your version as I see it is that you lose the warmth that the original scene has and you also lose almost all of the color.  The end result of a B channel move like this is killing off all the yellow and blue since the color information is near the center of the B channel curve and you cross the center point with your correction.

I have looked at your pages that you linked and the curves shown are interesting.  in the B channel shown in the link http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/4245/screenshot14q.png The inverted slope of the curve is causing the colors to be inverted. It also kills off any blue in the image where you might actually want it to be.  In general this technique is far too aggressive for common color correction.  You could use this as a layer and blend it back into the original but it is a very destructive move as far as color goes. 

A simple solution in CM might be to mask off the areas and use HSB to de-saturate the area that you are having trouble with.   

Greg

[headlights]

Greg thnx. I play with it. i am only a newb learning

On the church image of Chris . i feel the same. there would be good to work on a mask for sure.  Good idea. Might do the trick to get it real nice

The slope your right. much better to use linear curves on this operation. I just forgot to restore the slope This operation is much better with linear curves Though i doubt or it does kill the blue's. I think it only did 'cure' the blue cast? Any blending with orginal is sure a good idea very often imo? About the way i did it being to aggressive, kinda funny is Lee Varis did find not aggressive enough.

desaturate in HSB , i am not a fan of that, as some tends to kill colors that is the one?

here second try on the church fixing only red and greencast. accepted yellow as part of the actual lightning.which turns to be not such a bad idea. Did use same LAB technique.

[Greg Groess]

You can be quite selective in HSB about the range of color you are desaturating.  The Hue and Saturation curves can be adjusted quite easily...in fact.  The trouble is that the gray tone does not match up with the rest of the image for warmth and feeling.

Greg

[Greg Groess]

Highlights,
From the thread you posted.
http://www.flickr.com/groups/delaboratory-users/discuss/72157627970443017/

A lot can be done without damage to the subtle colors in the walls and furniture.

For this correction I used Curvemeister and did the following:

1) use the Daylight to incandescent stored curve in CM.  Apply the change and close CM.
2) re-open in CM and apply a skin tone Pin to some skin tones in the portrait...They should look right in any case...Applied the curve and closed CM.
3) re-open in CM and adjust the yellow channel in CMYK to remove some of the foreground yellow.  It was a slight change...

Some things to note...I think the method you are showing really kills off some of the more subtle colors in the image.  The light green in the walls is very important to the overall image and the color of the carpet while not perfect is certainly more brownish green than a off gray.  I think you have the right Idea but color correcting the kinds of color casts you are working on really is better suited for RGB.  you have a more fine control of the color space and the shadow, mid-tone, and highlights can be adjusted separately.

Lab is powerful but like a hammer when it comes to color casts.  You might want more of a paint brush or even a feather duster when it comes to important color corrections.  I'll try out the mandolin image and see what I can do with that...

Greg

Greg

[headlights]

Thnx Greg, Learned something today. Sure CM is far more advanged then what i use. (that program is less then a half year old) And you sure have tons more experience.

Thnx Again. I ll play again see or i can improve.

[Greg Groess]

CM is a great tool.  but it is just a tool.   The things you learn in the CM101 class and practice can be applied to any program with curves.  Do not take my adjustments as the definitive answer.  There are certainly more ways to correct this image.  Lab is very addictive and fast but it has it's weak points.  It is one of my most powerful tools but you have to be careful what you use it on.

Your tools can produce the same results as CM.  I just took some short cuts...the Stored ACV and the color pins are additions to CM not the main process.  Please keep asking questions and we'll keep putting answers out there for you.

It's about the image not the tools...

Greg

[headlights]

thnx



I did look a bit a your image, Hope you don't get mad. Though i think you have  a green cast (can be very good seen) next to that small protrait on the stove. Though that green cast is every where . It goes all over the image. See the table and the couch left  f.i. I think you did perhaps focus to much on the painting instead on the WB and WP / BP edit : just saw you also got a slight blue cast on the (dont know the English word) that thing around the stove.
Also a yellow / green cast on the walls next to the doors.  I am sure those walls are white as can be.  Also you seem to have a slight red cast on the sealing. I had problems there too. Though as try to fix WB the wall doe give us a white point. If one does have cast still there one needs to check more imo. I think value's are of a great help there. Also i feel that the devastating effect casts often is underestimated. Talking about a hammer  ;-) Cast sure is one. I have learned, first to get WB WP BP right, work from there.  Or if one does go for artistic affects np. Though for a starter like me it feels the way to go.

Btw on this image one needs to be careful or one blows the highlights out side. Btw to prevent it i did use for EV correction not LAB though CMYK K channel.

It aint that easy.

i did try an another shot.



i think., i am getting closer. Thnx to you i did also check more on the photo above the stove. I think i got it ok now. (was not so for sure)  Lab is indeed a hammer, though it feels good to me, for sure on WB fixes., i think , i hope i just have to practice more.

Must i am after a relook not to happy also on what i have now. The floor is indeed to much desaturated. , it aint easy